Comments on: Walking Gender http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/2006/01/11/walking-gender/ helen boyd's journal of gender & trans issues Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:16:33 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Mandee522 http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/2006/01/11/walking-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-435 Mandee522 Fri, 17 Feb 2006 07:46:16 +0000 http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/?p=600#comment-435 I have met you twice Helen. I had no sense of you as being Trans. Yes, you had some subtle masculine characteristics but that in an of itself is not "transness". Your forwardness, jauntiness (but not cockiness), confidence and even "take charge" attitude may give that impression, but your femininity and womanliness was always intact and in the forefront as is pointed out above. If you were really trans, Betty might not have been attracted to you. She as a feminine man obviously liked your more open gender style, but as a masculine man also needed your basic femininity. Ellen Degeneres is much more masculine in her style. She reminds me more of a gay-guy than a gay-woman. Her body language and dress style are very "gay boy". She exhibits "transness" in my opinion. You don't. I sometimes feel that she is a closeted trans-man and is in the closet about it because she doesn't feel the world is ready for a trans-man as they just got to the point of accepting her as a gay woman. That said- I am sure you know well that transness is a spiritual quality that most trans people experience within themselves early in their lives. You either have it or you don't. If you truly had such a feeling in you- you would surely know it. I understand when you say you are similar to Katherine Hepburn and Marlene Deitrich. Their underlying womanliness was never in question no matter what they wore. I often wonder whether George Sand was like them (wanting to break out of the gender clothing box as you seemingly do) or more like Ellen Degeneres. Best wishes and Hugs to you both and good luck with the new book Hugs Mandee Fine, Ph.D I have met you twice Helen. I had no sense of you as being Trans. Yes, you had some subtle masculine characteristics but that in an of itself is not “transness”. Your forwardness, jauntiness (but not cockiness), confidence and even “take charge” attitude may give that impression, but your femininity and womanliness was always intact and in the forefront as is pointed out above. If you were really trans, Betty might not have been attracted to you. She as a feminine man obviously liked your more open gender style, but as a masculine man also needed your basic femininity.
Ellen Degeneres is much more masculine in her style. She reminds me more of a gay-guy than a gay-woman. Her body language and dress style are very “gay boy”. She exhibits “transness” in my opinion. You don’t. I sometimes feel that she is a closeted trans-man and is in the closet about it because she doesn’t feel the world is ready for a trans-man as they just got to the point of accepting her as a gay woman.

That said- I am sure you know well that transness is a spiritual quality that most trans people experience within themselves early in their lives. You either have it or you don’t. If you truly had such a feeling in you- you would surely know it. I understand when you say you are similar to Katherine Hepburn and Marlene Deitrich. Their underlying womanliness was never in question no matter what they wore. I often wonder whether George Sand was like them (wanting to break out of the gender clothing box as you seemingly do) or more like Ellen Degeneres.
Best wishes and Hugs to you both and good luck with the new book
Hugs
Mandee Fine, Ph.D

]]> By: jadecath http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/2006/01/11/walking-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-336 jadecath Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:31:21 +0000 http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/?p=600#comment-336 <i>everyone’s thinking</i> she’s trans <i>again</i> Nope! There are all sorts of people who will sample boldly from the vast range of expression available to humankind. It would be a sad, dull world if you had to take an Officially Trans label in order to do that. My wife is like you in some ways. In some ways, she's a cocksure Top Gun flyboy, and she's proud of that. Our Godson keeps saying she's "like a boy", but really, she's just too big a personality to be like any one single thing. She doesn't like everything about my CDing, but she definitely likes the ways it flouts gender and gives us one more way to be defiantly different. everyone’s thinking she’s trans again

Nope! There are all sorts of people who will sample boldly from the vast range of expression available to humankind. It would be a sad, dull world if you had to take an Officially Trans label in order to do that.

My wife is like you in some ways. In some ways, she’s a cocksure Top Gun flyboy, and she’s proud of that. Our Godson keeps saying she’s “like a boy”, but really, she’s just too big a personality to be like any one single thing.

She doesn’t like everything about my CDing, but she definitely likes the ways it flouts gender and gives us one more way to be defiantly different.

]]> By: sungo http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/2006/01/11/walking-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-330 sungo Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:39:36 +0000 http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/?p=600#comment-330 When we talked at DO in the trans session, I identified as agender. This is exactly what I think about when I think about the word "agender" and I classify it as a trans expression. When I use the word "trans", when I self-identify in certain circles as "trans", the trans in transgender expands to "transcends". When I look in the mirror, I don't think of myself as "man". When I wish I could look as good as Marion in that suit, I don't think of myself as "women" or anything in between. I am just me. To the outside, gendered, world, it looks like my gender is fluid, dynamic, transient. To me, this is all just personality, mood. I use the word "trans" to indicate that I'm something different, something apart from the "traditional" concepts of gender and gender expression. Do I want to be a woman? No. Do I want to be a man? No. Do I want to be free from binary gender comparions? You betcha. Anyway, those are my thoughts at 8:30am :) When we talked at DO in the trans session, I identified as agender. This is exactly what I think about when I think about the word “agender” and I classify it as a trans expression. When I use the word “trans”, when I self-identify in certain circles as “trans”, the trans in transgender expands to “transcends”. When I look in the mirror, I don’t think of myself as “man”. When I wish I could look as good as Marion in that suit, I don’t think of myself as “women” or anything in between. I am just me. To the outside, gendered, world, it looks like my gender is fluid, dynamic, transient. To me, this is all just personality, mood. I use the word “trans” to indicate that I’m something different, something apart from the “traditional” concepts of gender and gender expression. Do I want to be a woman? No. Do I want to be a man? No. Do I want to be free from binary gender comparions? You betcha.

Anyway, those are my thoughts at 8:30am :)

]]> By: Beauty http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/2006/01/11/walking-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-329 Beauty Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:24:37 +0000 http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/?p=600#comment-329 Hi Helen, That was a very intense blog entry I know I can't describe you when it comes to gender. I can understand why you have yet to put your finger on where you are in the gender spectrum. I don't think you need to because we're all unique. The weird part for me is I don't see you as trans. The female CD'r thing kind of made me go, "Hmmmm?" That fits because when I met you I feel I was a female. However, you dress had masculine undertones. Your caring for Betty was most definitely feminine. You reminded me of my wife. The time that stood out to me the most was when Betty went to visit the restroom and you didn't know where she was and it was time for your class to start. You were so like, "Where is she?" It was cute and you could see you needed her. Another thing I remember was when your body language completely changed when she came into the first seminar. Again that reminded me of a female. Why? Because I have women friends who do the same thing. I have men friends who look up in the stands and see their wives and they change too, but it's different. They stick their chests out more. They don't look like they just got into a hot bath. :) When you'd talk you were soft spoken in the public area, but in the classes you had masculine qualities in your delivery. It's all very cool and it's one of the reasons I told you I can't wait to read your next book. In your first book I read it as 100% female... your writing I mean. That could be just me because I thought of my wife's feelings so much when I read that. Since I've been a member of the forum though, I don't see you that way anymore (exclusively representing a gender). I do know that you and Betty are a great couple and I wonder if you two being around each other helps to bring out the opposite gender in the other person more because you are so comfy around each other. For me the picture on the homepage sums up the way you two are. I've tried to type out what that picture means, but all attempts haven't succeeded at conveying what I mean. Dom, femme, masculine, female had to be used and none of those words used in a sentence reflect what that picture says about your relationship. If it doesn't fit, you must acquit. (sorry. .couldn't help that) ;) I guess that's why pictures don't have words, eh? Thanks for opening up and inserting this blog entry it truly was intense to me. Gracie Hi Helen,

That was a very intense blog entry

I know I can’t describe you when it comes to gender. I can understand why you have yet to put your finger on where you are in the gender spectrum. I don’t think you need to because we’re all unique.

The weird part for me is I don’t see you as trans. The female CD’r thing kind of made me go, “Hmmmm?” That fits because when I met you I feel I was a female. However, you dress had masculine undertones. Your caring for Betty was most definitely feminine. You reminded me of my wife. The time that stood out to me the most was when Betty went to visit the restroom and you didn’t know where she was and it was time for your class to start.

You were so like, “Where is she?” It was cute and you could see you needed her. Another thing I remember was when your body language completely changed when she came into the first seminar. Again that reminded me of a female. Why? Because I have women friends who do the same thing. I have men friends who look up in the stands and see their wives and they change too, but it’s different. They stick their chests out more. They don’t look like they just got into a hot bath. :)

When you’d talk you were soft spoken in the public area, but in the classes you had masculine qualities in your delivery.

It’s all very cool and it’s one of the reasons I told you I can’t wait to read your next book. In your first book I read it as 100% female… your writing I mean. That could be just me because I thought of my wife’s feelings so much when I read that. Since I’ve been a member of the forum though, I don’t see you that way anymore (exclusively representing a gender).

I do know that you and Betty are a great couple and I wonder if you two being around each other helps to bring out the opposite gender in the other person more because you are so comfy around each other. For me the picture on the homepage sums up the way you two are. I’ve tried to type out what that picture means, but all attempts haven’t succeeded at conveying what I mean. Dom, femme, masculine, female had to be used and none of those words used in a sentence reflect what that picture says about your relationship. If it doesn’t fit, you must acquit. (sorry. .couldn’t help that) ;) I guess that’s why pictures don’t have words, eh?

Thanks for opening up and inserting this blog entry it truly was intense to me.

Gracie

]]> By: Marlena Dahlstrom http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/2006/01/11/walking-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-328 Marlena Dahlstrom Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:16:18 +0000 http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/?p=600#comment-328 If it makes you feel better, Anne Hollander's "Sex and Suits" is in large part a lengthy paean to the men's suit. She counterintuitively she argues men's fashions have actually been the innovators (largely because they dealt with underlying structure rather than surface decoration) and that women's fashion has been stealing from men's fashion for centuries (more for asethetic reasons than for physical comfort or appropriating symbols of power in the world). So there's apparently a lot of other women who like suits too. The irony, as you've noted, it than crossdressers (including myself) have looked longingly at women's fashions for the apparent style that we feel men's clothing lack. I wonder if it were as acceptable for men to appropriate women's fashions as it is for women to appropriate men's, whether some crossdressers wouldn't feel the need to cross gender lines. For myself, if I were a bit bravier and society were a bit more accepting, I'd be tempted to do the Eddie Izzard "pretty masculine" look at least part of the time instead of crossdressing. If it makes you feel better, Anne Hollander’s “Sex and Suits” is in large part a lengthy paean to the men’s suit. She counterintuitively she argues men’s fashions have actually been the innovators (largely because they dealt with underlying structure rather than surface decoration) and that women’s fashion has been stealing from men’s fashion for centuries (more for asethetic reasons than for physical comfort or appropriating symbols of power in the world). So there’s apparently a lot of other women who like suits too.

The irony, as you’ve noted, it than crossdressers (including myself) have looked longingly at women’s fashions for the apparent style that we feel men’s clothing lack. I wonder if it were as acceptable for men to appropriate women’s fashions as it is for women to appropriate men’s, whether some crossdressers wouldn’t feel the need to cross gender lines. For myself, if I were a bit bravier and society were a bit more accepting, I’d be tempted to do the Eddie Izzard “pretty masculine” look at least part of the time instead of crossdressing.

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